Conference Expansion: Villanova's Best & Worse Case Scenarios
If you don't know about all of this by now, it's time to wake up. On Friday night, rumours broke that Syracuse and Pittsburgh had applied for ACC membership. That news was confirmed on Saturday as we engrossed ourselves in college football. And on Sunday morning, the mayhem was complete when it was officially announced that the two schools had joined the ACC.
Since then, it's been a wave of excitement and panic for Villanova fans. Sources within Villanova have told us that the school has been talking to the ACC for a while now, and late yesterday it was revealed Villanova had officially applied to the ACC amidst news that the conference was talking to an additional 10 schools.
All of this news has sent the Big East's basketball-only schools into a panic, and they'll speak via phone todayy without the football schools. Seems like they finally smartened up and realized that the big boys don't care one bit about them.
So this thing could go one of a few ways for Villanova - and as we stand right now, things do not look good. We'll explore some of the scenarios after The Jump.
Scenario 1 - The "Catholic" League
Right now, this looks like the most probable scenario for 'Nova. Unfortunately, it's also the worst. I mean, we're talking absolute nightmare. Right now the Big East consists of 8 basketball-only schools.
- Villanova
- Georgetown
- St. John's
- Seton Hall
- Providence
- Marquette
- DePaul
- Notre Dame
ND is the biggest wildcard here. Anyone thinking they are going to join a conference and include their prized treasure trove full of cash of a football team are kidding themselves. Wherever they go (and it could be a few places), they are going for all sports minus football. What they do hear probably doesn't have much effect though. This group of teams would probably tear away from the football schools, try to pick up Xavier, Dayton, Butler and perhaps St. Louis, and form their own basketball league.
Villanova has a shot to avoid this scenario. They need to, or we're talking doomsday. There is no money in this league. Or at least not the money we're accustomed to generating. If Villanova ends up with this conference, you might as well sign us up to be in the same boat as St. Joe's (PA). I just threw up a bit in my mouth at the thought.
Scenario 2 - Align With The Football Schools
The remaining Big East teams - Louisville, UConn, Rutgers, South Florida, West Virginia, Cincinnati, TCU - are in a mess right now. UConn wants the ACC. Rutgers wants the ACC or Big 10. West Virginia would kill to go to the SEC. TCU you just feel bad for at this point.
They wanted Villanova for football once, they might just be desperate enough to take them again and try to take some Big 12 scraps in Kansas and Kansas State after Oklahoma and Oklahoma State go to the Pac-12 (any minute now). That would at least keep the conference together and add a few solid programs.
The key here is that UConn and West Virginia almost surely have an out to another conference. And if they have the chance, they're running. And I can't blame them. I don't think you can say the same for the rest though. This would be Villanova's ticket to getting their FBS football program off the ground in a league they can probably compete in sooner rather than later.
The bad thing - this league may not be an BCS-AQ conference. I don't see how it could be, actually. This is a fair tradeoff because you're talking a lower overall quality of basketball, but we're getting football off the ground, which is a big plus.
Scenario 3 - Our Friends In ACC Country Throw Us A Bone
This isn't imminent (though it is what everyone is getting excited about), but right now this might be the best potential option we can get excited about. The ACC with the addition of Pitt and Syracuse is the new power in college basketball. Basically, it's on the road to becoming what the Big East has been for the past 5 years. And from all John Swofford has said there is no reason to doubt that basketball isn't driving at least some of the conversation.
Villanova would bring the Philadelphia market (and despite what you think, Philadelphia cares about college basketball and Villanova), and they bring some natural rivalries with UConn, Pittsburgh and Syracuse in addition to renewing a Boston College rivalry. A lot to like there.
The problem here is that the ACC holds all the cards. They are in no rush (nor should they be) to add a 15th, 16, (or 17th and 18th member). Villanova has no power here. They can only make their pitch (which probably includes a promise to stop the football upgrade to FBS) and hope that their is support from some other conference members. Syracuse and BC would for sure be in our corner. Hitching their wagon to Notre Dame (who would come as all-sports minus football) would help a ton too.
The Big East proved an 18-team basketball conference will work as long as there's quality, and this version of the ACC would have that in droves. Plus, with ND and Villanova, they keep their football count at 14 (for now) or 16 (if they add more football schools). It still gives them a ton of flexibility.
Scenario 4 - Become An ACC Football Member
Also known as the "I'd walk across a field of broken glass while on fire to make this happen" scenario. The ultimate longshot. And despite me writing this, I'm sure the ACC-fanboys will flood here and Twitter with the typical 'Villanova arrogance' crap.
Let's be clear - this is not only improbable, it's downright near impossible. So much needs to happen for this to be realistic. But it's not dead til it's dead. We've put a lot of effort into a potential football upgrade, and we shouldn't just forget about that. Because having football is always better than not having football.
Oh, and did I mention how there's just no way how this happens unless the ACC Presidents collectively have a moment of idiocy?
Right now, I'm fully behind scenario #3. It's what we should be rooting for. Sure, it probably kills the football dream, but if the alternative is being stuck in a league with St. Louis and becoming nationally irrelevant forever, I'm fine giving up the pigskin.
We need to protect our most valuable asset - and that is basketball. End of story.
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Scenario 3 makes sense...
It isn’t too much of a pipe dream for the ACC to add us and St. Johns to lock down the two biggest TV markets on the East Coast. Think of the match-ups, UNC vs Pitt, Nova vs BC, Maryland vs ’Cuse and to top it off Duke vs St. Johns at Madison Square Garden. Espn would kill to have these matchups all season long. Too bad it would mean that schools would have to care about basketball though.
Agree
I think at this point, football is a pipe dream. Our only landing spot is falling apart at the seams.
I prematurely shot my wad, if you will, on what was supposed to be a dry run, and now it looks like I have something of a mess on my hands.
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ACC...
I just don’t see ‘Nova ending up in the ACC. They don’t need us.
"I'll keep it short and sweet. Family. Religion. Friendship.
These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business."
"You don't want to analyze it...you want to admire it!" - Play by play guy on O.J. McDuffie TD catch against Ga. Tech.
by Esteban d' Amur on Sep 19, 2011 4:02 PM EDT reply actions
That's the sticking point
They don’t need us – that’s true. Could we bring value to basketball? Without a doubt.
We’ve got to wait for some more cards to fall (Texas, ND, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State) before the next wave. Once those schools make their intentions clear, the ACC can begin to seriously think about adding more teams.
I prematurely shot my wad, if you will, on what was supposed to be a dry run, and now it looks like I have something of a mess on my hands.
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I'd most support #3
As a Syracuse fan, the first things that came to my mind when the news broke were:
a) What about our games with Georgetown and Nova? and
b) How many days ’till UConn and Rutgers are invited for all sports?
I’d love to see you guys invited for basketball (sorry, football’s got too far to go for ACC to risk it), along with the Hoyas. In spite of our differences, I think it would be a great move for East Coast basketball, and all schools involved, to keep these rivalries intact.
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Thanks
I think the biggest thing to iron out is who the ACC schools would accept. BC Interruption thinks no way on UConn (right now) and a definite no on Rutgers.
I don’t know who that leaves yall with for football schools. But if you’re talking basketball only, I wouldn’t think there would be any sentiment of adding Villanova – good TV market, good program, good academics.
Georgetown is a tough sell because Maryland will do anything they can to keep them out. St. John’s is probably the next best bet, even though they aren’t adding much in terms of market because Syracuse has NYC covered. But they are rich in tradition and on the upswing. I’d rather see Georgetown though.
I prematurely shot my wad, if you will, on what was supposed to be a dry run, and now it looks like I have something of a mess on my hands.
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I think ND needs to be taken more seriously
As an ACC candidate. I know it’s always seemed far fetched, but why not now? Academic prestige and the real possibility that their basketball revenue gets seriously cut. With the amount they spend on the sport (top-5 nationally, I believe), I don’t know if they can afford to be in a smaller, 10-team Catholic league, or some variation thereof.
Definitely not a given, but worth discussing.
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by JohnCassillo on Sep 19, 2011 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Money's not really ever going to be a concern for ND
Their problem is scheduling. I believe it was a Rivals article today currently pointed out that if the ‘super-conference’ scenario plays out, they are in serious trouble. They won’t be able to find anyone of worth to play because all schools will be completely tied up in conference games with no room for them.
If you’re the ACC though, don’t you still rather have ND as a non-football school than not? They still provide a ton of value without football.
I prematurely shot my wad, if you will, on what was supposed to be a dry run, and now it looks like I have something of a mess on my hands.
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Hmm......
Few things I am trying to clear up:
1. IF UConn(already a basketball powerhouse and growing football program) and Rutgers both go to the ACC as football and basketball schools, would the ACC really look for another 2 basketball only schools. Also, what would be their main incentive for having such a big bball conference, besides just having a talented and robust basketball conference? Is it primarily just wanting to be the Big East?
2. If they are looking for two basketball only teams, what do you think the chances of St. Johns, Georgetown (as Chris already mentioned) and PERHAPS Notre Dame joining Villanova in the ACC are?
3. Doesn’t having schools like Villanova, BC, Duke, UNC, Georgetown or Notre Dame (schools with great academic and athletic tradition) in the same conference just make sense?
4. The way I see it, as Chris mentioned, Nova football might just have to stay put in the CAA. But what are the conference implications for other Villanova sports? Better competition for LAX, Track/XC, and Baseball?
What do you guys think?
I don't totally buy what he's selling
I have my doubts about a Big 12-Big East merger – mainly the fact being that some of those schools (Kansas) would rather go to the Big 10 than the Big East.
I prematurely shot my wad, if you will, on what was supposed to be a dry run, and now it looks like I have something of a mess on my hands.
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Yeah
He operates on a hefty collection of assumptions — too many to completely follow along with (namely WVU, but not excluding the pipedream that Memphis improves its facilities).
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by JohnCassillo on Sep 19, 2011 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Memphis
Just not an option – no way. Pitino was backing them too. Just no way.
I prematurely shot my wad, if you will, on what was supposed to be a dry run, and now it looks like I have something of a mess on my hands.
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Answers
1. Basketball = money. Not football kind of money by any means, but it means MORE money for everyone. And that’s what this is all about, right? If they could take ‘Nova + 1 and INCREASE their overall package for everyone (even if it means ’Nova and another taking a smaller % – wouldn’t you do it?
2. I can’t see them going to 20 basketball teams. 18 works, we know that. 20 is uncharted territory. But I’d say Villanova and ND are the most attractive options, with Georgetown (Maryland wouldn’t let this happen) and St. John’s behind them. ACC has both those markets covered already.
3. Absolutely, and I think that’s something we have in our favor. We fit the same profile as most of the schools there academically. A school like West Virginia does not.
4. Huge boost for lax – the ACC IS college lacrosse (especially now that Syracuse is there as well). ND and ‘Nova have great pitches if lacrosse matters. Villanova baseball isn’t on the same level as ACC baseball at all – but that’d be a way to improve our program.
I prematurely shot my wad, if you will, on what was supposed to be a dry run, and now it looks like I have something of a mess on my hands.
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You guys are nuts. No chance ACC is taking anyone without football. They don’t need it and they don’t want it. The idea that a conference with St. John’s, G’Town, Nova, ND, Marquette, Xavier, etc., can’t make money is ridiculous. We have major markets, major programs and could put a minimum of four or five teams in the NCAA per year with just ten members. Don’t fall for the Syracuse has the NYC market because they don’t. Penn State and ND have more of the NYC market than Syracuse. Sports radio today in NY was laughing at the idea that New York would be interested in a Southern Basketball League having their tourny at the Garden. Twice now football schools have up and left, caring less what happens. Why would we want that again?
Tourney at MSG
I don’t think anyone is suggesting NY’ers would be happy with an ACC tourney at the Garden. Far from it.
But the league in Scenario #1 isn’t getting close to the kind of money the Big 10, ACC are getting. It just isn’t.
I prematurely shot my wad, if you will, on what was supposed to be a dry run, and now it looks like I have something of a mess on my hands.
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catholic conf
The Catholic Conference is the most stable, reasonable outcome. It’ll be the east coast version of the West Coast Conf.
It could include 10 schools:
Eastern:
‘Nova, StJ, Seton Hall, Providence, G’Town.
Midwest:
Dayton, Xavier, Marquette, Depaul, StL.
I still don't love the idea of it
It’s “fine” – which is why I don’t like it. From Villanova’s point of view (with all we’ve done exploring moving up in football) – Scenario 1 is definitely settling.
I prematurely shot my wad, if you will, on what was supposed to be a dry run, and now it looks like I have something of a mess on my hands.
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Scenario 1..
is what will happen. ’Nova will become a high mid-major program. There is no way the ACC is copying the Big East business model (which was horrible) by adding non-football members. The school was 10-15 years to late in making a move in football. This is the end result.
"I'll keep it short and sweet. Family. Religion. Friendship.
These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business."
"You don't want to analyze it...you want to admire it!" - Play by play guy on O.J. McDuffie TD catch against Ga. Tech.
by Esteban d' Amur on Sep 20, 2011 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Scenario 2 is more and more likely as this merger talk heats up
The talk of the Big 12 absorbing the Big East is a clear sign to the basketball-only schools – get out. Big 12 schools want nothing to do with the likes of St. John’s, Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul, etc.
If that happens, we NEED to make sure we are moving up in football and align ourselves with great programs like Kansas, Louisville and UConn.
I prematurely shot my wad, if you will, on what was supposed to be a dry run, and now it looks like I have something of a mess on my hands.
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The football program...
picked a real bad time to go 0-11.
"I'll keep it short and sweet. Family. Religion. Friendship.
These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business."
"You don't want to analyze it...you want to admire it!" - Play by play guy on O.J. McDuffie TD catch against Ga. Tech.
by Esteban d' Amur on Sep 20, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
They certainly did
And 0-11 is a real possibility, as sickening as that is to say.
I prematurely shot my wad, if you will, on what was supposed to be a dry run, and now it looks like I have something of a mess on my hands.
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